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Decision criteria for/against VoIP2010-09-07 | |||||||
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Hello to the participants of this discussion
firstonce a short conception of mine and my request. Vocationally I have to do the topic with VoIP or IT-technology nothing at all. Also my personal knowledge at IT-technology is very superficial. I participate in a common measure for further education for future high-level personnel. For this have themselves several companies zusammangeschlossen, in order to be able to present a trainee program. The size of the enterprise group covers several 10,000 coworkers. Our topic in addition reads “introduction VoIP in an enterprise” global acting. A goal of our project is to be compiled a manual, which it makes the management possible of the participating companies, to point out which is to be considered during the introduction from VoIP to. The question of benhum “the customer verklickern is the fact that it should exchange its old, very well working classical TK-plant against a modern VoIP plant " is for me naturally very interesting and would be allowed to do a good Disskusionsgrundlage devoted. Our elaboration is to prevent exactly the premature and economically not justified exchange of an existing plant. However is to be pointed out also completely clearly, when from technical view an exchange is meaningful. We want to point out and prevent futurable solutions that an enterprise invests too late into inovative communicationses. I look forward to further opinions too for and against VoIP. Are also over everyone tap gratefully, which it makes us possible the introduction VoIP to analyze exactly. Momentary we are to be programmed thereby a check list or better said a Tool, which gives the management a decision basis during the introduction of VoIP. Unfortunately we have here however something “festgefahren ourselves” and to come no longer so quite. I thank already times in the Vorraus for further contributions. Greeting Cadark Simple rule of thumb: If it wants to sell to a VoIP but even no good reason finds the probability large for the concrete customer, is that that does not need it. I have due to the preloading of the other one Threads this topic times separated. @cadmark, which you ask here, normally is not (and only quite in a larger enterprise or group) a question, which can be answered briefly times in a forum, but some at work means. Since the topic is quite complex and also not with 20 questions fast times can be decided, an experienced advisor should accompany you. Help a few questions you first times to understand your own Telefonieverhalten and the requirements. - Which locations and like many in which countries are there? - Like many coworkers are at which enterprise locations? - Like many coworkers are in Home Offices or other quasi-stable points with the work? - Like many coworkers are mobilely on the way in the changing use? In which regions/countries? - Which persons from which locations/Lokationen have with whom to communicate? How much in which time and how often? That can be done toward the geographical distribution, number of coworkers at Lokationen and their discussion behavior/volumes. Who telephones much, much can save… as, depends on the individual case. Then there are certain guidelines surely of the IT, i.e. know each other with Windows out, I cannot come with Asterisk. Thus: - Which telephone systems are today operated? - These telephone systems (local loops, functions, numbers of participants) have which equipment? - Which integrations with applications exist (e.g. CTI, call center)? - Gives it an enterprise strategy for certain operating platforms or systems? Finally also the infrastructure is important: - Which network infrastructure gives it within locations? - Which Internet tying up have these locations? - Which Internet tying up have Home Office coworker? - Which Internet tying up can one presuppose with mobile coworkers? Contract-laterally: - Wants to commit itself one to an external offerer? - Are enough if, for as? - As far one wants to operate/under control have the IT/Tk infrastructure on one's own? - With which Providern which contracts exist? Regarding the features of the Tk-infrastructure you can query then everything in sequence… - Call forwardings - Parallel calls - Conference circuits - Calls obtain - Center and waiting arrays - automatic call distribution (ACD) - Account functions - ... Then the meaning of the Tk-infrastructure should be clarified: - Which meaning has communication for the business? Critically? - Has a loss strategy to exist? Is that mobile phones? - Which availability is to have a Tk-plant? - ... And finally one should look at oneself and see times the entire today's Tk-budget, where one wants thereby per coworker actually realistically. Now there is a set of requirements, which you can illustrate on different scenarios… dererlei there are a great many, there naturally also many architectures and Provider. VoIP as option comes thereby if necessary. also forwards. The world is complex and I only a part of the points which can be considered here times specified. --gandalf. HP: Forget the “Tool” for the decision making aid. A Tool always goes program around individual cases and you can very much time thereby spend,… then a new Provider or a new technology with new price structure comes on the market and all this is suddenly different. Hello Cadmark, I must there gandalf, from own experience - has even already appropriate measures in this order of magnitude carried out, perfectly quite to give. - Overall does not go there to nothing at all. As long as precisely on the requirements of an enterprise does not fit, it is senseless. And VoIP is there surely not the title of the project, but only a Unterpunkt to fulfill a possible measure requirements of a customer. - Finally the enterprise concerned does not want to telephone to VoIP but. - As then, plays rather an unimportant role is solved in the Endefekt. As already specified gandalf must there first and - completely importantly - also during the conversion many, a great many details are clarified. From own experience I can say to you that so a “put on” decision, which comes from above for example by appropriate Tool and not from the technique level is nothing value. - You can finally never cover over such solutions all requirements. And already a smallest special requirement can tilt the result completely. An external advisor for a so stored topic is beautifully and well, however probably hardly objectively and besides at the latest after project conversion again away. - I had contact with several “advisors” (it was completely free of manufacturers/TK-integrators/or) to this topic. However I must admit that no the “interview” projected. Clearly, I got, noted thereby new starting points however fast, - there I from the selling rail came - that always interest of profit was behind it. Even if it many manufacturers/TK-integrators to see reluctantly and over many chicaneries to prevent try, am I the opinion the fact that enterprises in this order of magnitude in House should have someone, which sketches this project, constructs, to which adapts own needs, thoroughly designt and knows and later possibly. also converts, administered and controls. - Only so it can be guaranteed in my opinion that also on the enterprise it is accordingly precisely adapted and a stimmtige solution results in. (An external advisor has never this deep view, like an internal colleague.) If one wants to turn on such a project, one (in my way) must invest much, much time and know-how. Thus I sketched partial months long concepts, converted and to the requirements adapted; me losgeeist of any fears and fears incorrect information and protection statements and always tries to be flexible. And the existing Konstrukt tries again and again to optimize. Also decisions were tilted oftmls still in last second and again considered by this constant optimization process. Thereby also for a long time compiled was made partial again niece. (With some colleagues released often considerable grind.) I wanted simply with existing technology and one possibly. forthcoming investment the optimum for the colleagues intoxication-oil, who must deal with it daily. Although the investment is transacted today long (however yet fully not converted), this very day one adapts and one optimizes. Only by the fact that we sat down extremely profoundly apart thereby (and can also without a constant external advisor to have done), we this very day extremely flexibly to current requirements react. As you see were there the topic VoIP a topic, however only as way and never as a goal. Further an exchange of a TK-plant is only over on the prescalers of the VoIP technology to set in the few cases necessary. Actually all TK-plants in this order of magnitude are convertible with building groups on VoIP. Greetings smileyman Quotation:
Therein as the first point: Is there a ko-criterion for one of the two techniques for legal or internal reasons? Still extremely long a runner that contract for the existing technology that not to be thus e.g. quit knows, or (into other countries) legal Voip prohibition. On the other side many external coworkers (e.g. Construction crews) over in-house call number to be attainable must, or hear-safe discussions between two addresses (with VPN). First only once thank you at you all for the very extensive and also applicable answers. I agree you, surely can such a complex topic not only by exchange in a forum be compiled. We besides already to an offerer of commercial communication solutions took up contact. However are me independent opinions, as important in this forum very. I and my remaining team members us this week already rather united became, which concerns our VoIP Tool. Introduction VoIP cannot be regarded separately from other communication possibilities in an enterprise. The complexity of this topic does not become surely in a software-supported Tool, in whatever form to always pack its. Even if we set some project hours thereby into the sand, we should not put further expenditure into the development of a such Tools. Admit thus better zhneknirschend the fact that we ran ourselves somewhat when full steam ahead against the wall drives. With the introduction of VoIP or other new communication solutions in an enterprise many further, not only purely technical are to consider aspects. Thus the most modern telephones do not bring me anything, if they are not accepted by the coworkers. Finally also each enterprise has its own Unternehmenskultur. Here I see also the advantage of our project team. Since none from us originates the IT-range, we have surely something other way of thinking, than e.g. our IT-leaders. This can be fertilizing for the elaboration of a manual quite also much „“. I am also the opinion that there must be a team in addition in the enterprise, which a such project correctly well through-planned. In my opinion this team should not however only consist of IT-technicians. I already mentioned that we already got ourselves advice of external. Surely with all disadvantages, as also mentioned smileyman. But we could win the first view, as a such project can be concerned at all. Meanwhile, we participate already since March 2009, at the treatment of our topic VoIP/UC, we however already a very good own objective of regarding wise won. Turned around our external advisor could naturally win important realizations. When a supplier has to reach already times the opportunity at one time by means of a such project 8 enterprises. We would have expected ourselves also many more of this project, in the foreground stand however also for our training for future high-level personnel. It is not to mean however that we our elaboration et simply in such a way Acta to put want. Our realizations should be useful already the enterprises involved for far decisions. We had already thoughts, like the organization of a IT-Workshops within our enterprise group with our IT-leaders and various companies. Since naturally everyone of us is into its actual everyday life business merged, that is finally also always a matter of time. That type from more komjuder I still this week into our project team will address. If into this circles someone further ideas to obligations - and work statement has, I would train this gladly into our manual. @ gandalf, I hope I may your ideas into our manual use. In response I will also try the realizations, which we interested within our project to win to be able, this forum to pass on. I look forward on a further, to this high level led move exchange. Greeting cadmark In addition a few notes: Quotation:
 And if someone not white that there are also still screws, then the customer by the advisor is not necessarily experienced, if this dear sells hammers. Thus rather engage someone, which accompanies you as a Coach and really advises - to strengths and weaknesses of individual beginnings refers and helps to work out crack points of the requirements.
Quotation:
Now to the points again: the objective is very easy - the people want to telephone. Outgoing of it there are different ways to concern the topic. I would prefer a process orientated view, i.e. the question is, which are the individual Use Cases of telephoning… why one does this and in which contexts, with which other Tools and documents… what is connected as? Thus of the Use Cases can be determined already times genuine characteristic numbers and characteristics by an evaluation: Discussion volume, discussion goals, place of origin of the discussions, requirements at functions and integrations. On the basis the convergence/divergence and the locations, as well as the meaning of the individual Use Cases then architecture candidates for a Tk-solution (or perhaps already Unified Communication) let themselves be derived. One must itself of classical ways of thinking if necessary. also solve and the technology do not only regard. For the revision-safe receipt of electronic faxes, which do not land directly on paper, one needs another infrastructure, than for a few classical fax devices. Perhaps for the Compliance with GDPdU one needs another system, if VoIP is used in place of ISDN fixed net… What happens with enamels? If one remains with the Telefonie, then the entire spectrum is to be regarded. - There there is the enterprise-central plant with decentralized VoIP or portable radio A ELECTIONs and then CallThrough for switching over a few fixed net or VoIP Amtsbndel. - Wants to operate one not, gives it also the outgesourcte Centrex, which requires a VoIP telephone or other terminal option with each coworker only… - Or that is mobile phone for each coworker and a VPN with abbreviated dialing the best solution? No classical telephone system more? It will turn out the fact that in certain scaling ranges of discussion volumes and participants the technology steps also more into the background and the negotiatable contract design with discounts and tariff options of greater importance is. In addition one must know and to evaluate be able however alternatives, because otherwise the prices do not move from alone --gandalf. Quotation:
I step this Tools everything overall into the ton. Jawohl!  Here it concerns not a trivial tariff comparison, but a tool to the determination of the optimal Tk-strategy of an enterprise. I do not know tools, which carry also only ansatzweise at justifiable expenditure this out… and I know no Tk-hardware/software/consultation/solution enterprise, which would successfully use such. --gandalf. Meet me today with a colleague out mean project team. Are times strained which to it says. I will inform you, how our project develops itself further. Greeting cadmark Hello gandalf94305 A Tool, which after Einabe of some parameters a “finished” do not suppl.-smooth-eat one ausspukt it probably to give. My thoughts go now more into the direction preparing a value analysis or a Nutzwertanalysw. Perhaps you could present an example compile, or give yourself it in addition concrete Beipsiele. Are strained, which direction we hit after our next project discussion. Greeting cadmark Efficiency analysis sounds good 
Quotation:
--gandalf. Thus my personal opinion is that a VoIP TK plant has correct advantages only if it is kept rather small (<10 participants). Finally it concerns the money. I doubt that larger VoIP Konstrukte of a traditional telephone system from the costs and maintenance costs is superior. Hmm. I that would want to contradict. It applies the principle “who much telephoned, can also much save”. Functionally a professional VoIP plant for the enterprise employment is at least equivalent to classical plants. I believe the argument with current saving also only limited. Regarding CTI and all other integration with systems however VoIP plants have the large advantage that software puts there in it and is more feasible thus. The advantage of a large VoIP PBX consists thus of it that one can separate from a physical Tk-wiring and hardwired Tk-functions, i.e. so more strongly virtualisiert with increase of the flexibility (e.g. for the binding of external coworkers or Home Offices, with the implementation of new functions for the application integration, for Complianceanwendungen with the call Recording). Therefore you will find, internal VoIP plants used successfully in many large enterprises very. After VoIP another topic is external. --gandalf. I can you gandalf only agree there and must more jumiller unfortunately from own experience clearly contradict. VoIP very successfully and cost-optimizing use many me well-known large companies. But the cost situation cannot only be with VoIP the ausschalggebende reason. - Quite etc. speak centralization on the other advantages, flexibility, central management. for itself. Greetings smileyman With the key word VoIP in the enterprise employment one must differentiate, between internal VoIP and VoIP as external tying up technology. Inenrhalb of the enterprise is VoIP the conventional plants at least. equally, if not even far consider. Degrees themselves in a medium-size enterprise (100 mA, on 10 locations distributes - all locations interlaced by means of efficient data links) successfully VoIP integrated - with features like redundant Telefonie at all locations. That would have become very expensive probably with conventional technology - and/or. the large ones did not offer nothing at all to me (although many plants of the large trkisen offerer were quit). And it makes concerning the price quite also for sense. Of possible features such as LDAP integration, full Managebarkeit (it insults there usually with the offerers of conventional Telefonie), central maintenance etc. I would not like to know at all the prices with conventional plants. Perhaps have I also only pitch, which my partners with the ergograuen offerer simply too are “full”, and actually not in their office peace to be disturbed to want. After VoIP outside is completely different chapter - one can save here much to safe, if one e.g. many international calls has. However one can speak as enterprises also here with its offerer, in order resembles, to get if even still better offers, than it can offer a SIP Provider. There still conventional technology is the measure of all things - v.A. for me. as enterprises - private is another chapter. With VoIP as office binding typically the ISP is also the VSP, i.e. contrary to the private sector. the service level for Internet connection and VoIP binding fit and/or. for both together a baking UP strategy is agreed upon. Thus the SIP drunkenness is also sufficiently available and stable to the Provider. Will be worth itself however only if one applies a certain volume in the month. --gandalf. |
