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230Volt cable as flat cables?2011-01-10 | ||||||||||||||||||
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Normally nerve I the people in the C++ forum thereby. But is somehow down for the moment. I would have times ne question to “rough electrical stuff”  Does ' s give sowas like up finery electrical cables for 230V, which is much flat? I would like to lead a cable the wall highly, but it should have been unaufflig stop. And there the wall is soon painted, thought I ists a good time for it.Much achievement would also not have to transfer, since an LED lamp is used. Maximally 20W. Greeting Christoph If that should be a MR11/MR16-Leuchtmittel in the LED lamp, 2x0,75mm hands braid. If it should be a GU10-Leuchtmittel, actually also, it is you would have one metal version which can be grounded. EDIT: You can rausziehen however also three individual rigid lines from a NYM line and beautifully in that Cover a troughing to disappear leave, I already made. The cover is max. 3mm highly and can be stuck well with acryl at the wall. The large lower part of the troughing is not no more needed thereby. Quotation:
Yes. I could. That is however everything somehow at the looked for past. The fact that mans does not see does not go probably. I had hoped, who give it an extremely thin flat cable, as it e.g. occur in CD drive assemblies. But I will probably take a regular to 2 Adriges 230V cable, and will fix it with fabric volume at the wall. Greeting Such flat cables and/or foil conductive strips are not suitable and also not permitted for 230V! You do not have any security for the case of the cases and an edge of wiring loom are inevitable - who wants that already?
According to VDE the cross section of a firmly laid line must fit the safety device in the Zhlerschrank. With the usual 16A-Sicherungen are these now times 1.5 mm2, even if over it only one LED with 0,1 Watts is operated. Contribution #3 If the type “NYIF-J” should be meant, this type with the ribbon conductor, I mean to have read, may only under finery be shifted. Are me not reliably whether those not in former times times IMPU line was called (thus for in the finery shifts). Contribution #2: The individual veins from a NYM to pull and “openly” not shift is jedefalls not according to regulation. Greeting Stephan If it goes to the VDE standards, we can close the Thread
Servus, Quotation:
A NYM 1,5mm line is to be secured maximally with LS B10A, for an LS B16A is a 2,5mm line to be shifted. Which is shifted in houses in many places, actually illegally. With maximum possible load 3600W a 1,5mm is no longer protected line over an LS B16A. When short lines one could think still about an LS K16A. Quotation:
By the way LS switches with chewing release characteristic are meant only for special cases with high switching on stream. In the case of doubt - in particular in private households - automats with C-characteristic are sufficient. Greeting, Hendrik Few one the notion has. With the other answers lift-off me the neck hair. Times tap for a good forum for the problem. Quotation:
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In Ernst: 230V are no Kinderspielzeug and one should watch out, but not each “Berhrer” is therefore equivalent deadly. But extremely unpleasantly, far more unpleasantly than the 90V DC voltage at the ISDN connection.  [edit] the 90V DC voltage pinches only, if one affects BOTH veins, with 230V alternating current is sufficient it perfectly, L to get… [edit2] And wood leaders are very very meaningfully with electrical installation works, only times like that at the edge… Quotation:
Greeting, Hendrik Quotation:
These things are to be considered. 1. Case of tension 2. Acceptable current load of the lines/the cables after Verlegeart and length as well as loaded leaders. 3. According to DIN standardisations (reticulated system forms, TAB, amassments, etc.) 4. After loop resistances and short-circuit stream (characteristic over-current protection organ) Engeneering graduate of electro-technology. Indeed: Strictly speaking must be considered there a good deal. In order with the classical example to remain (16A with 3x1,5mm ): The length from the distribution circuit to the consumer may not exceed 17 meters. A value, which is seltenst exceeded in the most in and multi-family houses. (By the way already became in this case during a load of 3.600 Watts (approx. 16 A with 230 V) already approx. 108 Watts alone converted in the line into warmth.) Only now times in Ernst: That is considered on the building site in the few cases. There it means: 16 Ampre? 1.5 square. Greeting, Hendrik Well Hendrik… I give myself me struck. You computed and considered everything correctly. With such a qualification I can hold also not with. Are only electrical engineer master and pipeline masters gas/water. With your statement to the building sites I give you quite. The interpretation does not correspond then to VDE, but usual practice. Me always a “wire from the cap” flies if I 2 extension drums behind each other sees secured with 16 A. Greeting Torsten And good carpets, besides one should try to affect in each case a line. With me in the dwelling the electric circuits are bld switched that with several plug socket in two rooms in a UP box in the wall are, the dispatching to the safety device thus e.g. do not fit in such a way. if I the kitchen switch get the plug socket of the neighbour room still river off. I however only after after replacement found out, when the phase examiner glowed at one time easily and lit up correctly after touching the wall. The Elkos is still worse in old tube radios, if these have residual voltage of 150-200V after switching off still, twitches enormously. Quotation:
A foil cable for 230V and 20W would be in principle no problem, e.g. Polyester foils (with MKTs) are extremely good insulators. The 20W places already rather a hurdle there, is however feasible. On the side of the plug connectors one becomes however with security no more components over 42V and/or. 60V find. At the end one would have to find one, which examines the whole and “absegnen” can and may. That is a very very expensive thereby either or a project offering no prospects. Suggestions: Unterputz or a correctly stylischer troughing. There over this line only a LED Funzel to be operated is: Trafo down and only the LED tension by flat line (e.g. 2x0,5mm cheapest loudspeaker line) hunt upward. Then also the risk escapes one - insufficient isolation, - a too small cross section of a line, - the line can be secured according to the LED with a small speedy fuse - ... Therefore the question about GU10 or MR16…. Oh of people! Always this Klugscheisserei! As would also be it H05RNH2? Flat is and can one points to paint! Expensive troughings been void, only the grounding electrode is missing, but that is usually not needed eh (with light installations). Greeting Marco Quotation:
No Klugscheisserei? Now the poor chap wanted to only know which flat cable it to use can. And your philosophy ore over security techniques and Auslsekarakteristika of automatic circuit breakers  If I ask after the time want the time to know and not, which is the second 9,192,631,770 subject of the period duration that the transition between the two hyperfine structure levels of the initial state of atoms of the nuclide 133Cs appropriate radiation. This times as analogy to it. lol HP: What at the cable which is I called an unqualified tip? a) If a protective grounding connection at the light is, the “Nichtanschluss” would be roughly negligent and forbidden. b) There are 0.75 mm around some better suitable euro mains cable in white and with 2 x . c) It is intelligent-shit-becomes green. Quotation:
Quotation Use: To the use for candlelight demonstrations in interiors or in the free one. Single-wire cables for power installation for Christmas tree candlelight demonstrations in series connection and for similar temporally limited decoration purposes. Two-vein flat line only for temporarily installed decorative lighting. It concerns here a special line intended for a completely special operational area. To adherence to the regulation over the structure and the transfer of light chains with Illuminationsflachleitungen according to DIN VDE 0100 part of 722 particularly one refers. It may be this cable for other purposes (candlelight demonstrations) is intended. And possibly the use with LED shining means VDE is not conformal, however by use of this cable with an LED light determines no human life endangered contrary to foil cable. It will not overheat likewise with 20 Watts. Small tip: Go times to Lagos and attempt humans with your VDE Bible bekehren there believe me those to have more necessarily than I. See picture! Hybird, it goes here not around it, what would be theoretically feasible, it goes around the fact what are meaningfully used here can and may . And a cable, which does not correspond to the necessary basic conditions, may not be used simply! After your logic I could take also individual twisted Klingelleitung, because the 20W will bear also this line loose (I~0,08A with 230V)! Then then you would have to plan a special security of the line of ~100mA before the line when additional isolation etc.… Therefore stop the suggestion hunting only the low-voltage accordingly secured over this line. Like that the insurance protection (fire risk) is ensured, the endangerment of other persons and animals is likewise avoided and thus can also an accordingly flat small line be used. Besides smaller tap to your picture: There the isolation with security is better, than with your suggestion! Also an overhead line, with which the cooling is more optimal, is as with many energized veins in a cable bundle… That is also the reason, why 1,5mm-Kabel with 16A may be secured - the sum of the energized veins within a cable bundle is crucial, as was above already correctly prepared
Why after my logic!? This cable does not have in entfertesten which with more ner condemned Klingelleitung to do. 2 times 1.5 mm2 act! With additional Gummiisolierung! My Schreibtischlampe has nen metal foot, and is attached with 2 Adrigen a cable at the plug socket without PE protective groundings. And my Bude is not burned down yet. <- as much about grounding, light, prohibition! And this cable for candlelight demonstrations is since years with wind and weather on my balcony in use and as very zuverlsslich proved. No fire, no short-circuit and no otherwise still conceivable disaster happened ever. If this cable use finds, should it be attached naturally vennftig (strain relief, fullisolated etc.) which is please then bittte passing? Must leave times the church in the village to it. You always with your horror visions. Greeting M. Quotation:
Think times after… Quotation:
Electrical operational funds are classified in safety class systems. By this the different measures are to be understood against electrical impact. Schreibtischlampen (and other electrical. Kleingerte) correspond mostly to the safety class system II (Schutzisolierung), these prevent the connection electrical. Leader and/or construction units to the housing. On the equipment you find then also the appropriate symbolism (two into one another-lying squares) From your Schreibtischlampe (often also very complex) light installations to then judge, hold I for very waghalsig… People, have you times the Threat creator in demand which it for ne LED lamp to install wants? Possibly is corresponds you to the demanded safety class system. Now however, you be right and I mean peace! Tree! Yes, I asked, but no answer receive…. Is is perfectly uninteresting whether something is forbidden or not. Is important that it functions. According to the descriptions we would have alone in Germany millions of dead on the plug sockets to hang here to be silent from the foreign country completely. I remain thereby: Functioned to jumper wire for 230V great, only the drill presses do not come thereby from the quark. jein, I am also a friend of tinkering solutions, but one should keep a certain standard. If it is then discussed as publicly as here, one does not come, to the relevant regulations to refer…. Quotation:
Lutz Posting 2: Quotation:
Lutz WTF? Oh one I will have to hand at the meeting one publicly to VDE Bible burn to organize, 5kg Thermit as fire accelerators should or? So much know-how on a heap Thus…
why squarely? I meant only the cover of the troughing, that am rectangular and have 15x4 mm external dimensions Yes. But how I fasten reliably? I habs with acryl (no silicone) made. Looks clean, is overlineable and always holds. As would be it, if you raised the cable in a corner and then in and/or. at the cover along to the desired place lead? Here there are special triangular troughings. Then it sees also cleanly and inconspicuously out… Some more to the shining means: Are you there sure you that you would like to use one really in such a way? This is more broad-radiating and as well as all LEDs is laterally attached than only. If you want to use these only in a glass light, it can be that an unpleasant light distribution results. Thus also fast the indication of the light-current of 1200lm relates itself, since the light is delivered in all directions and loses itself. Let you from the salesman times the light distribution curve give… then you see which I mean. Here then luminous intensity (candela CD) is mostly indicated. This results from the light-current and the design (spatial angles). To listen attentively it leaves me that even the salesman specifies the intended purpose of “dwellings” as the latter… The pear is to be used in relatively large with glass in containers lamp. That is vaguely distributed the light, is intended. The lamp sees completely rough so out. It is in c.a. 2,5m height in the corridor to be hung up. Since at the cover no river is, I must these of a place at the wall, where another lamp was attached up to the lamp before leads. Since it is an old building, I must overcome even a roundness at the cover. Difficult thing, if one did not like to ruin the optics with a auflligem cable… Hello, have this threat evenly very attentively read because I before a similar problem stand. In my dining-room the dome lamp is situiert not directly over the Esstisch and I would like not necessarily in the finished furnished room to begin around to lift. Thus have I times in the net on the search for a suitable cable made themselves and which I with elevators as trailing cable already repeatedly saw thought of a cable. it concerns here the following cable: http://www.lappkabel.de/index.php?id...8&rel=32358bda I imagined I gossip it with sticking silicone of the cover and brush it know on, look surely better than possibly a troughing cover or a like. On the not used veins naturally clamps come. Thus which the professionals say here to it??? mfG Foerb If it function left were, the professionals could do that surely Welcomely in the forum
sorry I yard of Conrad transmits here http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/6...W-4G15/2511150 With silicone is no attachment technology for an electrician sticks. well well then with building adhesive, no fun Is me already clearly that do not stick the straight fine English are however it are on wound evenly flat to lie and no nails or clips in such a way or to have thereby I it to over-paint can and it as possible remain as inconspicuous. And there it to chemical influences is resistant the sticking silicone probably by the Gummiisolierung will not nevertheless eat or it up-soft An electrician does not think also of flat cables after ....... Quotation:
, I place Jo also not in agreement…. I meant the cable, what probably imagined the width unit, used to be able
One does not use the cables for its tendency purpose and a lfex flat line is meant for it. Quotation:
@Beitrag #52 did we have that not already? (Contribution #7) my only Greeting Stephan |
